Saturday, March 20, 2010
Mill pension plan draws mixed reaction
Wednesday, 18 November 2009 - 1:54pm
Cousineau said the pension fund for the Fort Frances and Kenora CEP members, which always has been invested separately from Abitibi’s other pension funds, is in good shape—and that their pensions shouldn’t be risked in a new trust fund meant to pay for a shortfall in the Quebec pension plan.
The current pension fund pool, which includes about 16,000 Abitibi employees, is estimated to be $1.3 billion short of the $4 billion-plus it should have in it, but Cousineau said local union members are being told to make up for a shortfall they shouldn’t be.
“The money CEP wants to take out is to pay for the Quebec plans,” he noted. “They are underfunded by $1.2 billion.
“This action puts every worker’s pension in Fort Frances and Kenora in jeopardy,” Cousineau warned.
“They want to steal our right to retire with a pension,” he charged.
Cousineau reiterated the local pension fund, which includes about 1,440 CEP members in Fort Frances and Kenora, is in good shape.
In 2008, for instance, it had assets of $372,800,000, was 91 percent funded on an ongoing basis, and $19 million ahead for a windup.
“That was one of the best funded pensions in Canada,” he remarked.
“In 2005, we made a profit of $42,400,000. In 2006 we made $45,481,000.
“You can see by these numbers the plan is doing fine,” he later added.
Referring to two meetings held here last Tuesday, at which CEP administrative vice-president Kim Ginter spoke to the local CEP membership, Cousineau said Ginter told members the pension fund here was $100 million short.
But he feels that’s not possible since the local pension plan is split into 70 percent bonds and 30 percent mutual funds. To lose $100 million would mean that entirety of the 30 percent mutual funds was lost on the stock market.
Cousineau also is worried by the fact the CEP has never said how much of the local pension fund would be put into the new trust fund and what would be left alone.
“Would you trust someone with your bank account?” he asked.
Before the proposed trust fund can become a reality, it must be approved by the Ontario, Quebec, and federal governments, not only to “backstop” the trust but to waive some of the laws that pertain to the Pension Act.
“There must be a reason why the government put [the laws] in—to protect us,” Cousineau stressed.
Cousineau admitted that if the proposed trust fund goes through, he only has three years until retirement and probably will be all right. But he worries about the next generation.
If, for example, half of the money in the local pension fund was put into the new trust, and the mill here was sold to another company, that company could close out the current pension plan and go with a new, less stable one, leaving mill workers who haven’t yet retired with only 50 percent of their pension.
“If a new company comes along and closes out the pension plan, they are not going to put any more into it,” Cousineau argued. “We’re 50 percent short, so the guys who got 10-12 years left are not going to have enough time to make money in the new pension plan.”
But CEP Local 92 president George Chabot said it looks like the proposed plan is the only option.
“Myself, I think it’s a good thing because how can trying to get 25 percent more of your pension be a bad thing?” Chabot said yesterday, though stressing he only was speaking for himself and not any other union members.
“To me, it’s looks positive and they should go ahead with it, and we should move ahead,” he added. “There’s no other options out there.
“The thing is, nobody’s come up with a better plan.
“People that are retired now are expecting a full pension and I think this is one way we can get it for them, or come close to it,” Chabot added.
“We have to understand that these are different times,” he stressed.
As reported in Thursday’s Daily Bulletin, the plan was announced at a series of CEP membership meetings last week, including a pair held last Tuesday at the Townshend Theatre, which attracted more than 400 retirees and active members.
According to Ginter, the new trust would put the money into the stock market, with assurance from higher levels of government to “backstop it” if in 10-15 years the market doesn’t prove strong enough to pay pensioners 100 percent of what they’re owed.
“What we’re looking at is creating a trust and moving the money that is destined for people who are currently retired into the trust and having the government oversee it,” he explained.
“We figure that with the amount of money that’s moved, and the government actively managing it, like they would CPP, it would create enough money to support the pension payments that are out there to 100 percent,” Ginter added.
“What we need is the Ontario government and the Quebec government, because that’s where the plans are registered, we would need them to give us a waiver on some of the laws that pertain to the Pension Act,” he noted.
“If they do that, then we would also need their agreement that it get moved over to the trust and they oversee it.
“And if enough interest was created on the money, as soon as it was funded to the point of 100 percent, which we feel it could be, then they could wind it up, create annuities, and pay everybody.
“And then it would be over.
“If there was a shortfall down the road, we would be asking the government to backstop it, but we don’t feel there would a shortfall,” Ginter stressed.
“With the amount of money that’s involved—we haven’t dotted ‘i’s’ and crossed the ‘t’s’ so we don’t know the exact amount, but there’s $4.4 billion there, which is a lot of money—we feel that it’s around 77-80 percent funded, and it could create enough interest to support payments of 100 percent.”
Ginter said if the fund gained six-seven percent, it probably would be enough to support pensioners but currently under regulations, only a 4.5 percent formula can be used to calculate a solvency base.
Ginter reiterated that for the plan to become a reality, the Ontario, Quebec, and federal governments all have to be on board. At CEP meetings with the two provinces, they seemed receptive.
“They didn’t say yes, they didn’t say no. They’re going to go away and analyze it,” he noted. “We haven’t heard back yet whether it’s positive or negative.”
Ginter noted the federal government hasn’t responded yet to CEP at all.
“We’re patiently waiting,” he remarked. “There’s a lot at stake and they shouldn’t be sitting on their hands. They should at least meet with us as quick as possible so we can hand our plan to them and they can start to evaluate it.
“Currently, there’s been no response from them [Ottawa] at all.”
As previously reported, labour negotiations between CEP and AbitibiBowater were suspended the last week of October until the union secures a commitment from governments to help with the pension and restructuring issues.
“If we don’t resolve this part of it, we will not be negotiating with Abitibi,” stressed Ginter.
“Under the Quebec rules, for one thing, you can’t do anything to pensioners’ pensions—you can’t touch it,” he noted. “So we can’t do anything with the company on that.
“If we don’t fix the shortfall, there’s no use negotiating anything with the company because the creditors will move ahead with the debt that’s laden upon the pension plan,” he warned.
By Duane Hicks, Staff writer
A new trust fund being proposed by the Communications, Energy & Paperworkers Union of Canada and AbitibiBowater—to replace the existing pension fund pool for mill workers and help take some of the strain off the company as it undergoes restructuring under bankruptcy protection—is drawing mixed reactions here.
Some union members are livid about the plan, including Ernie Cousineau, who has worked for the mill for 35 years and has been the pension rep for CEP Local 306 for the past 16 years.
The current pension fund pool, which includes about 16,000 Abitibi employees, is estimated to be $1.3 billion short of the $4 billion-plus it should have in it, but Cousineau said local union members are being told to make up for a shortfall they shouldn’t be.
“The money CEP wants to take out is to pay for the Quebec plans,” he noted. “They are underfunded by $1.2 billion.
“This action puts every worker’s pension in Fort Frances and Kenora in jeopardy,” Cousineau warned.
“They want to steal our right to retire with a pension,” he charged.
Cousineau reiterated the local pension fund, which includes about 1,440 CEP members in Fort Frances and Kenora, is in good shape.
In 2008, for instance, it had assets of $372,800,000, was 91 percent funded on an ongoing basis, and $19 million ahead for a windup.
“That was one of the best funded pensions in Canada,” he remarked.
“In 2005, we made a profit of $42,400,000. In 2006 we made $45,481,000.
“You can see by these numbers the plan is doing fine,” he later added.
Referring to two meetings held here last Tuesday, at which CEP administrative vice-president Kim Ginter spoke to the local CEP membership, Cousineau said Ginter told members the pension fund here was $100 million short.
But he feels that’s not possible since the local pension plan is split into 70 percent bonds and 30 percent mutual funds. To lose $100 million would mean that entirety of the 30 percent mutual funds was lost on the stock market.
Cousineau also is worried by the fact the CEP has never said how much of the local pension fund would be put into the new trust fund and what would be left alone.
“Would you trust someone with your bank account?” he asked.
Before the proposed trust fund can become a reality, it must be approved by the Ontario, Quebec, and federal governments, not only to “backstop” the trust but to waive some of the laws that pertain to the Pension Act.
“There must be a reason why the government put [the laws] in—to protect us,” Cousineau stressed.
Cousineau admitted that if the proposed trust fund goes through, he only has three years until retirement and probably will be all right. But he worries about the next generation.
If, for example, half of the money in the local pension fund was put into the new trust, and the mill here was sold to another company, that company could close out the current pension plan and go with a new, less stable one, leaving mill workers who haven’t yet retired with only 50 percent of their pension.
“If a new company comes along and closes out the pension plan, they are not going to put any more into it,” Cousineau argued. “We’re 50 percent short, so the guys who got 10-12 years left are not going to have enough time to make money in the new pension plan.”
But CEP Local 92 president George Chabot said it looks like the proposed plan is the only option.
“Myself, I think it’s a good thing because how can trying to get 25 percent more of your pension be a bad thing?” Chabot said yesterday, though stressing he only was speaking for himself and not any other union members.
“To me, it’s looks positive and they should go ahead with it, and we should move ahead,” he added. “There’s no other options out there.
“The thing is, nobody’s come up with a better plan.
“People that are retired now are expecting a full pension and I think this is one way we can get it for them, or come close to it,” Chabot added.
“We have to understand that these are different times,” he stressed.
As reported in Thursday’s Daily Bulletin, the plan was announced at a series of CEP membership meetings last week, including a pair held last Tuesday at the Townshend Theatre, which attracted more than 400 retirees and active members.
According to Ginter, the new trust would put the money into the stock market, with assurance from higher levels of government to “backstop it” if in 10-15 years the market doesn’t prove strong enough to pay pensioners 100 percent of what they’re owed.
“What we’re looking at is creating a trust and moving the money that is destined for people who are currently retired into the trust and having the government oversee it,” he explained.
“We figure that with the amount of money that’s moved, and the government actively managing it, like they would CPP, it would create enough money to support the pension payments that are out there to 100 percent,” Ginter added.
“What we need is the Ontario government and the Quebec government, because that’s where the plans are registered, we would need them to give us a waiver on some of the laws that pertain to the Pension Act,” he noted.
“If they do that, then we would also need their agreement that it get moved over to the trust and they oversee it.
“And if enough interest was created on the money, as soon as it was funded to the point of 100 percent, which we feel it could be, then they could wind it up, create annuities, and pay everybody.
“And then it would be over.
“If there was a shortfall down the road, we would be asking the government to backstop it, but we don’t feel there would a shortfall,” Ginter stressed.
“With the amount of money that’s involved—we haven’t dotted ‘i’s’ and crossed the ‘t’s’ so we don’t know the exact amount, but there’s $4.4 billion there, which is a lot of money—we feel that it’s around 77-80 percent funded, and it could create enough interest to support payments of 100 percent.”
Ginter said if the fund gained six-seven percent, it probably would be enough to support pensioners but currently under regulations, only a 4.5 percent formula can be used to calculate a solvency base.
Ginter reiterated that for the plan to become a reality, the Ontario, Quebec, and federal governments all have to be on board. At CEP meetings with the two provinces, they seemed receptive.
“They didn’t say yes, they didn’t say no. They’re going to go away and analyze it,” he noted. “We haven’t heard back yet whether it’s positive or negative.”
Ginter noted the federal government hasn’t responded yet to CEP at all.
“We’re patiently waiting,” he remarked. “There’s a lot at stake and they shouldn’t be sitting on their hands. They should at least meet with us as quick as possible so we can hand our plan to them and they can start to evaluate it.
“Currently, there’s been no response from them [Ottawa] at all.”
As previously reported, labour negotiations between CEP and AbitibiBowater were suspended the last week of October until the union secures a commitment from governments to help with the pension and restructuring issues.
“If we don’t resolve this part of it, we will not be negotiating with Abitibi,” stressed Ginter.
“Under the Quebec rules, for one thing, you can’t do anything to pensioners’ pensions—you can’t touch it,” he noted. “So we can’t do anything with the company on that.
“If we don’t fix the shortfall, there’s no use negotiating anything with the company because the creditors will move ahead with the debt that’s laden upon the pension plan,” he warned.
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cep
Im no longer the cep pension officer because of the article that was released on nov.18/09 . i was asked to resign which i did. i didn't consult with my executive before doing the interview and suffered the consequences. i still would have done the article anyway . i was told part of what i said was secret. i feel when secrecy is invoked evil happens. the union executive tows the line the national demands of them or they to can be replaced . i feel the real story has not surfaced . this is what i believe the pension issue is about.i think the real reason cep is so worried about the pension issue is money. not the retirees pension money but the union membership dues, bc is shut down- Ont. is getting shut down the maritime s is down -last is Quebec. for Abitibi to keep going they'll have to shut more mills down in Quebec. the workers in Abitibi once numbered 18000-now its 5000 and dropping . if they shut mills the employees numbers will go to 1200. i pay over 2000 .00 a year to belong to this union .think of the lost union dues across Canada .they have to stop the bleeding or they wont be able to afford their lavish life style in Montreal. i believe the company and the union are working together .the company gets 1.3 billion and the union stops the bleeding. i still don't know how the union can take control of our pension and decide what to do with it .i thought pensions were safe from the company taking them but i never thought the union could seize them . pensions are something taken for granted all your working life . you expect them to be there when you retire. is the pension in fort frances going to be there if they are allowed to take control of it . i wonder.
Pensions
I want to thank Ernie for his article, we here in Kenora are on the outside looking in on this debate. His article has shed some light on the whole process. Since 2005 we have been out of the loop and getting diffrent stories all the time about our pension. There are more unions involved than just CEP in order for the trust to happen we need to give everyone a say. We all paid in to the plan I myself have 27 years in the plan. I have many members from USW local1330 that are worried about there rights or lack of rights. So Ernie I once again want to thank you for your honesty and loyalty to your union brothers and sisters from Kenora
Ernies
I would like to tell Ernie there are a few of us out there that believe in his take on this very complex issue. I attended the meeting and I thought the CEP rep was actually an Abitibi rep. To squash Ernies right to free speech in regards to what he knows as the truth is completely against everything a union stands for. I think it is about time that the individual unions take our own power back and get rid of the bearucratic entities that now represent us. The display at Fort Frances meetings was Fear Mongering at its worst and I felt like I was watching American news. Its time for Union Members to stop being like a bunch of sheep and take care of ourselves.
Being a part of Abitibi is like having a bad disease but thats where we are at and we have no choice in that. Remeber we still show up to work every day and have done the same things for the last fifty years the only difference is that upper management has changed how they do business.
Back to Ernie I applaud your courage to go against the grain and giving us other sides of the stories that are untold or secret.
Grant
CEP Pension Plan Deception
I attended a meeting here in Kenora and felt the truth lay somewhere "behind the lines" of what we were told. there were no actual numbers presented only what seemed to be "generalization of theory and smoke and mirrors". I could not recive a definitve answer as to "who actually will be running the money". Many men and women here also had the same question. The presentation seemed to overlook or not include the fact that Kenora and Fort Frances are seperate and in a unique situation regarding our pensions, and where exactly we stand with regards to (under)-funding. They can ask people to resign, continue to decieve us and lobby all they want, but those of us who feel a need to have an informed decision making process, and a clear understanding of what OUR legal rights regarding this issue are will NOT be silenced by this forced resignation. Many members here in Kenora are with you Mr Cousineau, and CEP cannot ask members of other unions to resign. lets not forget that we are all in this together.